13. Dr Yee Lian Chew on becoming "the worm lady" and comms advice for EMCRs
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Episode show notes
Today's episode is a deep dive with Dr Yee Lian Chew.
If you google her, you're likely to come across left-of-field descriptions like Worm Wrangler, Worm Nerd, and Worm Lady — because she's the head of the Chew Worm Lab at the Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute.
In addition to her day job, she's a passionate science communicator. She was part of the superstars of STEM 2022 cohort. She's appeared on ABC Science and given public lectures at great events like National Science Week.
Today, we're going to be exploring Yee Lian's experience as an EMCR who's passionate about building communication skills, both in terms of comms and engagement efforts with the public as well as in terms of becoming a leader in research.
Our conversation covers:
Becoming "the worm lady"
Tapping into people's curiosity
Finding the joy in your science
Defining and following your values
Investing in being a better communicator
Institutional support for science communication
Communicating about basic research and the scientific process
Making your science relatable
Uniting your team
Embracing feedback
And a whole lot more...
Find Dr Yee Lian Chew online:
https://www.flinders.edu.au/people/yeelian.chew
- Public engagement
- Career development
- Team alignment
- Storytelling
- Your pitch
- Listening
- Mentorship
- Collaborating with professional staff
- Communicating in different formats/mediums
- Comedy
- Failure
- Stakeholder/audience mapping
- Philanthropic funding
- Relationship management
- Community engagement
- Making your work relatable
- Feedback
- Playfulness
Credits:
Hosted and produced by Chris Pahlow
Edited by Laura Carolina Corrigan
Consulting Producers Maia Tarrell and Michelle Joy
Quotes:
"I think you can have a playfulness in science. It's not all serious. There are some things you do have to take extremely seriously. But, when it comes to it, like... It is fun."
"And, when I was trying to explain what I was doing, the one thing that they all remembered was the worms. I worked on brain health and ageing and that sort of stuff. But you know, it was kind of like, okay, well, that's cool and important and everything, but worms? And everyone would ask... The first question would be like, how are worms related to humans? I mean, I could go down the evolutionary tree and share a lot of Latin names that are very difficult to spell. So there is that evolutionary connection, but also, that kind of made me realise that there was something that was special and unique about what I do... I deeply believe that in the work that I do there's a great added value of using the worm model. So I kind of embraced that. And as time went on, like I met my fresh science colleagues in later years and they would be like, Oh my gosh, worm lady, how are you going? So I just kind of embraced that from that moment."
"You're so right about engaging curiosity. I think that is really key. I think in the end, all humans are curious. And in anything where we have to talk about science, whether it's, you know, writing a scientific article or talking at a public lecture, or even writing a grant application, we're all about tapping into what makes people curious and what makes people want to know more."
"She had so many things going on academically and at home. And she said something to me like. it sometimes feels like you're just lurching from one deadline to the next, and that really stuck with me. I mean, she said this to me 12 years ago. It does remind me a lot about how we operate I think as humans in this society that we live in. We are just lurching from one deadline to the next, whether it be a professional deadline, or whether, you know, my bills are due, or I need to cook dinner tonight, or I need to go grocery shopping on Saturday. And I think one thing that we really need to keep in mind is it's not just about those things. It's about finding joy in the whole process."
"It's not like I had to pass a test and then suddenly I was a leader... I just found myself in that position. And so I think what made it clear to me was that I don't have all the answers just because I'm suddenly in a position of leadership. And so I needed a way to help me recognise when I don't have the answers and I still have to make a decision about things or guide people to make decisions... And so I needed to follow some set of guiding principles. And so that came the idea of these values."
"I think if you do follow your values, in the end, it's never really a wrong decision for yourself."
"Being a good communicator actually makes you a better scientist in a lot of ways. I think it helps you to firstly communicate your results to other people who are not in your field. And I think we've recognised that trying to work in a specific field only is not actually tremendously helpful because you need the input and the guidance from people who work outside your discipline, because they're going to come up with something which ends up being totally original and totally innovative. And if you can't explain what you're doing to people outside your field, you will never get that benefit."
"If I had to say that there's a set amount of time that you had to train to be a science communicator, I would say it's probably weeks or months. But the more important thing is that it has to be regular. It has to happen kind of more or less consistently. I think you can do some intensive training, but you should kind of keep onto the pulse of trying to, you know, visit a school every two or three months, or trying to get a spot on radio every quarter or something. Or, you know, every time that you want to publish some interesting scientific work, reach out to the media team and write a media release together with them. I think it's something that we can build on and constantly work on. It doesn't have to be all the time, but it should be in there as an element of what we do in our work. "
"Write a plain language summary on that staff profile page. And I found that so deeply helpful and something I could just do straight away... I feel like it is actually really useful for people who want to know who I am and what I do."
"Focusing on fundamental basic research is, I think, something that we could do more of in the public space. The second thing is to talk about the scientific process as part of that."
"So being able to talk to people about that and kind of clarify that we don't have all the answers and that part of the journey is trying to find the answers. And we can only give the best advice, you know, on what we know now. I think that helps people to understand how changes in policy work, that do affect their lives. How those decisions are ultimately made."
"For me, I find because I realise I don't have all the answers, what I would prefer to do was unite people behind a common goal. And that we all work towards that goal in different ways. And so people have the chance to provide input on that goal. And to say, okay, this strategy that we're doing, I think we could make it better in this way. Like, I love that. I think that's something that I really need because I don't have all the answers."
"I think it's important to be transparent about the pressures that are influencing those changes [within an organisation]. For example, we had funding to do a particular project. Okay, so that funding doesn't last forever. Right. So, we have commitments we have to make sure that we are spending that money wisely."
"One of the things is just bringing your whole self, and for example, if you talk about, you know, cultural differences, or even personal differences, differences in gender, sexuality, and all of those things. If you are not bringing your whole person because you feel like, I don't want to talk about this because it might make people feel uncomfortable, then there are other people who are going to think, oh no, I shouldn't embrace this part of my personality at work because it makes people uncomfortable. So I think I'm in a position now where I can talk comfortably about my life. I can say, Oh, you know, there's this particular event of cultural significance, which is important to me. This is how I grew up and I'm going to talk about it to everyone. And so they feel that it's okay to talk about their own cultures as well. You don't have to pretend to be like a bland monoculture at work. You can talk about those things. So bringing your whole self is something that people can do straight away, as much as they're comfortable."
